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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
117
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Posted - 2013.08.14 02:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Rowells wrote:
Shield
Advantages
Higher agility/speed
Faster active repair
passive recharge
Mid slots - more dps low slots
Modules use less PG
You forgot a few:
1. Ability to increase overall resists through overheating of one invulnerability field.
2. gist local shield reps have 200% the capacitor efficiency of the most efficient armour reps.
3. Crystal implants are available to increase shield booster power and efficiency. No such pirate implants exist for armour.
3. Ability to fit battleship sized modules on battlecruisers and cruisers.
+15% to local reps is an excellent change.
The fact that archons will uber tank is not important. You don't kill archons with DPS, you kill them with neutralisers.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
130
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Posted - 2013.08.15 10:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Problem is that Gallente boats have accumulated flaws through the years as neglected hulls tend to do and with Devs sorting each problem but treating them separately (not stepping back to see whole picture) ... then you throw in a tangential change such as this ...
This is an interesting problem for CCP. Gallente self rep blaster-fit ships are designed to be up close and personal. i.e. within scram range. For that reason their only way out of an engagement is by winning it. The outcome is digital.
Under those circumstances, if you construct the ship to have a 'fair' (50%) chance of winning a 1:1, it's chances in a 1:2 will rapidly drop to zero.
So in order to be viable in any sort of gang skirmish, it has to be a little more powerful so that it can survive long enough against 2 or 3 opponents for help to arrive.
This must be a very difficult thing to balance as a game designer.
I have no problem with gallente being OP at close range brawling, minmatar being OP at edge-of-disruptor-range skirmishing, amarr being OP at mid-range fleet work and caldari being OP at slinging missiles from beyond the edge of lock range. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
130
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 12:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:I have no problem with gallente being OP at close range brawling, minmatar being OP at edge-of-disruptor-range skirmishing, amarr being OP at mid-range fleet work and caldari being OP at slinging missiles from beyond the edge of lock range. Nor I. But if a person can only eek out a 50/50 with a 1k+ tank and 5-600 dps within scram/web range as is the case of the Diemos then that person has problems that the Devs cannot solve .. hell, I'd gladly take a 3-4:1 fight with a ship sporting those characteristics. There is more than enough room to down/side-tweak before you get to the 50/50 or even 2:1 mark in when it comes to the rep bonus blaster brawlers. They need a weakness beyond neut-spam (can be weaker cap for instance), pure and simple. Caveat: Reason why I do not want an OP active rep/blaster hull (besides the obvious) is that they will flood space and force everyone else to pack neuts just to compete .. and neuts affect my Amarr boats a lot more than the rep/blaster hulls as I do not have all the mids to mitigate their effect. Just so we are on the level 
Welll... first of all, on a pvp op I always ensure that there are neuts in the fleet.
Secondly, deimos is not *that* op. It will die to a neut-fitted battleship eventually, but it is strong enough to hold on long enough for help to arrive, which I this is it's role. Certainly that's how I've been using it - a hardened point ship.
It will also (eventually) die to a properly flown vagabond. I cannot speak for other ships since I am not an expert in amarr or caldari pvp.
Interestingly no-one has mentioned cruise missiles. I lost one deimos to a pair of ravens fitted with mohlnir cruise missiles and target painters - no neuts involved. Again, with a neut, one of these ravens could have taken it I am sure.
Everything had a counter (except the 100mn tengu..) you just have to think. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
130
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 13:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:Welll... first of all, on a pvp op I always ensure that there are neuts in the fleet.... Not everything is fleet and for every point of "weak" the active rep bonus may accrue in blobby weather it gains five points of "OP" as scale decreases. Otherwise a sensible thing, one can never have enough neuts in case of a logistics or Hail-Mary carrier appearing. As for the rest .. you really want to balance HACs against ships 3 (4 if you include T3) sizes up the ladder? If so then all the other hulls will need significant changes
I think it's reasonable to compare a HAC to a battleship, since they cost a similar amount.
All that tech has to have a purpose.
Nevertheless, a HAC will always be susceptible to a heavy neut, so if I were in a battleship/HAC 1v1 , I think I'd prefer to be in the battleship.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
130
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Posted - 2013.08.15 13:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Onictus wrote:W0lf Crendraven wrote:
You have logis even in small fleets, all rep boni (bar maybe on frigs) are dumb and shouldnt be in game as they are.
That is strictly a PvP interpretation. The active rep bonuses are quite good on PvE boats.
PVE balance:
I used to think in terms of PVE for game balance, but these days I realise that where it really matters in in PVP. Most ship losses occur in PVP and this is where incremental improvements can prove pivotal. PVE for many is "just for the money" and they will just pick the best ship for the job without any emotional attachment. They treat it like a piece of farm machinery, if you will.
PVE players tend to get more emotionally attached to their PVE ships I think, since they see them not as workhorses, but as a mark of their progress in the game. That's certainly where I was a few years ago.
Local tank:
I use local tank in PVP small fleets of cruisers and battleships. However in order to do so successfully, you have to be *very* careful about your targets, and you need to take some ECM.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
166
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Posted - 2013.08.20 10:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fredric Wolf wrote:That is reserved for Dust or other FPS games.
almost fell off my chair laughing...
You have to admit though that the fella's maths are right. -50% cap use for an armour repairer is dangerous.
A T2 fitted hyperion with gang links has (when all cap is coverted to repair cycles) about 360,000 ehp.
If you half the cap use, you increase that number to the order of 700,000 - actually a little more because now cap recharge becomes a factor.
I think we'd all have to agree that that's a little overwhelming.
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
199
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
No form of active tank can be viewed correctly as "tank" in pvp, save for a few cap-stable Gist-based shield fits (these need to be gimped).
In PVE, where there is enough cap, yes.
In PVP an active tank is a means for converting cap boosters into EHP. The important metrics are rate (in order to keep up with incoming DPS and neuts) and efficiency.
The efficiency is important in order to prevent cap booster depletion prior to destroying your enemy.
Even an ASB (which is simply a derivative of shield boosting that it immune to cap warfare) is such a converter.
The moment you reduce cap requirements for tanking to the point where they can be permanently run on cap recharge alone on a PVP-fitted ship, you will break eve.
An example of broken eve is the gist x-type perma-repping tengu with crystal impants that will permanently tank 2500dps.
The game of Eve will be improved, in my view, by re-addressing modules that can achieve this game-breaking feat.
A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors.
An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another.
Please learn the difference. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
204
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Posted - 2013.08.22 23:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
There never was a HAC balance. It was vagabonds, zealots, ishtars and nothing else.
Now the choice is wider, depending on the role.
A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors.
An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another.
Please learn the difference. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
237
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Posted - 2013.08.23 23:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lady Manus wrote:The proposed changes for Shield boosters are overall bad imho,
While the gist boosters are already good, pith boosters are getting a major nerf, prices already dropped to almost nothing and no one will ever use those after 1.1.
Please reconsider: remove all shiedl boosters bonus or give pith boosters at least 15% or, better, 20-25% bonus to large and x-large ones.
LM
Ridiculous. Gist shield boosters are already 4x the capacitor efficiency of all other local repair modules. They are very overpowered and need to be nerfed.
A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors.
An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another.
Please learn the difference. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
247
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Posted - 2013.08.28 08:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
As I see it, there are two underlying drivers for this change:
1. over time, ship dps output has risen whereas local tank has not
2. ASBs are highly overpowered, overshadowing all other forms lof local tank
This has left ASB as the only (except in rare cases) viable local tank solution.
There are 2 ways to resolve this:
1. scale back ship output dps to original levels, and reduce the effectiveness of ASBs, or
2. raise other forms of local tank to bring them into line
Getting local tanks right is very difficult. There is a very fine line between a tank being not enough to survive a sensible amount of time in an uneven contest, and being unbreakable in a 1v1.
Fortunately, local tanks require more cap than a pvp ship can generate, forcing the ship to burn cap boosters. Thus an upper limit on effective EHP is established through the product of the ship's resistances, the size of booster it burns and the size of the cargo hold.
If you want to reduce it's eEHP, energy neutralisers are the answer.
A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors.
An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another.
Please learn the difference. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
270
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Posted - 2013.08.30 22:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rekon X wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Increase the shield bonus of Large Deadspace/Officer, X-Large Deadspace/Officer shield boosters by 10%
Let us know what you think! So I take it Pith "are" included in this now? They are listed as deadspace ingame under metagroup. Do we have any updates on this? Changes going into effect in 4 days and no updates since Aug 7?
When he said, "let us know what you think", you will notice that he did not make a specific promise to act upon or respond to what you think.
It's like a manager saying, "my door is always open". It is open, but waste his f*cking time by going in there and giving him your worthless opinion on anything other than the awesomeness of his five point plan will just have him reaching for the HR guide to firing troublesome little sh*ts faster than you can blink.
A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors.
An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another.
Please learn the difference. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
270
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 23:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rekon X wrote:
But when he said Pith was not included was Aug 1, and changed the main thread Aug 7.
By the post Deadspace Large and X-Large (which includes Pith, Gist) will be buffed 10%.
No buff would make deadspace mods of little value.
None of that matters. While Gist shield boosters retain their OP ability to convert cap to shields at twice the efficiency of any other type, all other shield boosters are obsolete - as is armour tanking, even with a bonused ship.
Even that does not matter. While the ASB remains the most cap-efficient, fastest boosting module in the entire game, even after this little change, all other tanks are obsolete.
A Capacitor Transporter is a device for transporting capacitors.
An Energy Transfer Array is a device for transferring energy from one spaceship to another.
Please learn the difference. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 12:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Does this mean we get our resists pushed back up to 5% per level? The whole reason why they were nerfed was because local rep bonuses somehow performed badly in comparison. Local reps are having a massive buff and by the same circular logic identified in this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=224880If you reverse the math it can now be seen that Local Rep bonuses are more powerful than resist bonuses. THe ammount of bonus in the local repairer is IRRELEVANT in the dispute between Local repair bonus and resit bonus, sicen the resist bonus Also applies over the same values. THE fact remaisn that Local repair bonus MUST be stronger, because they are more focused and less versatile than resist ones!
^^^ this.
To reiterate:
for local tank, resist bonus helps and local repair bonus helps
for logi tank, resist bonus helps, local repair bonus does not help
for buffer tank and alpha resistance, resist bonus helps, local repair bonus does not help.
Local repair bonus is a niche bonus that pigeonholes the ship into the role of small gang brawler. The resist bonus is an all-round bonus to effectiveness under all circumstances - even when the ship is out of cap.
Therefore it makes sense that local rep bonuses are more powerful - they are a specialisation.
Winter marauders - more replies than any other thread, for a ship that no-one flies :-)
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